Boardwalk Empire?

[Yohan]

^ i still have a few invites for the private torrent site with only tv shows on it

Or people could use eztv.it

Might not be the most comprehensive site on the web, but if you're like me and only watch a few select series, it's great.

[odium-LSC]

I'd like an invite, if you've still got one...

[Icesickle]

Whoa. Ma'fucka got baptized to death.

One of the worst scenes in any show in recent memory. It looked like something out of a Frank Miller film adaptation and didn't jibe with the studied period realism that the show tries to strike.

I don't want to agree with Popeye cause I'm trying really hard to like the show, but it has a lot of weaknesses that I think get overlooked or disregarded because of the good will the show gets because of the pedigree of its producers / creators / actors and it's subject matter.

For one, plot twists or scenes just get thrown in at random without any foreshadowing or rationale (eg, the Ponzi scheme victim lashing out at everyone and this setting off Margaret leaving Nucky; Jimmy's girl getting powned by the photographer and his wife, even though there wasn't any reason given as to why the photographer's wife would pull such a fucked up stunt on her; Nucky and his brother having a blow out even though they reconciled after his brother got shot; etc.). The writing and dialog is frequently poor (Jimmy saying, "I should piss in it!" [the cackling guys drink], almost every interaction Van Alden has, etc.).

Boardwalk Empire is basically a bunch of great scenes mixed around with a bunch of average scenes in a narrative thread that doesn't feel like it has any overriding direction or creative vision. Even though The Sopranos, Deadwood, and The Wire had different writers and directors for most of its episodes, it consistently felt like Chase, Milch, and Simon & Burns, respectively, were overseeing their shows and making sure they were even-keeled and had a unified vision. Boardwalk Empire doesn't have that.

Its first episode is still one of the best, if not the best, debut episodes of any show I've ever seen, but the show hasn't lived up to its promise.

[naturalborn103]

Thanks for saying you don't want to agree with Popeye and then just repeating exactly what he already said..

[Icesickle]

Thanks for saying you don't want to agree with Popeye and then just repeating exactly what he already said..

Quoted for 90% of the board that has you on ignore.

I didn't "repeat exactly" what he said, though, unless by that you mean I agreed with what he said and then expounded on that and added some additional points.

[ackbar]

show is good. the pilot isn't the best episode
everyone should stop comparing everything else to the wire

[jazztomovethatass]

harrow prepared to kill the entire d'alessio family? fierce.

[Reason1]

Whoa. Ma'fucka got baptized to death.

One of the worst scenes in any show in recent memory. It looked like something out of a Frank Miller film adaptation and didn't jibe with the studied period realism that the show tries to strike.

I don't want to agree with Popeye cause I'm trying really hard to like the show, but it has a lot of weaknesses that I think get overlooked or disregarded because of the good will the show gets because of the pedigree of its producers / creators / actors and it's subject matter.

For one, plot twists or scenes just get thrown in at random without any foreshadowing or rationale (eg, the Ponzi scheme victim lashing out at everyone and this setting off Margaret leaving Nucky; Jimmy's girl getting powned by the photographer and his wife, even though there wasn't any reason given as to why the photographer's wife would pull such a fucked up stunt on her; Nucky and his brother having a blow out even though they reconciled after his brother got shot; etc.). The writing and dialog is frequently poor (Jimmy saying, "I should piss in it!" [the cackling guys drink], almost every interaction Van Alden has, etc.).

Boardwalk Empire is basically a bunch of great scenes mixed around with a bunch of average scenes in a narrative thread that doesn't feel like it has any overriding direction or creative vision. Even though The Sopranos, Deadwood, and The Wire had different writers and directors for most of its episodes, it consistently felt like Chase, Milch, and Simon & Burns, respectively, were overseeing their shows and making sure they were even-keeled and had a unified vision. Boardwalk Empire doesn't have that.

Its first episode is still one of the best, if not the best, debut episodes of any show I've ever seen, but the show hasn't lived up to its promise.

I dunno, I agree with a lot of that but it sounds like you`re really trying hard to find fault with this show. I didn`t think the baptizing scene was that bad, granted a little out of place. As for the photographers wife, probably something to do with how she's always wanted to leave him but when it came down to it - never could. I know what you mean about it having a disharmonious nature comapred to Wire/Deadwood/Sopranos, but come on, those are the absolute GOATS. Definately hasn't cemented it's legacy as being close to one of those type-calibre shows yet, but nevertheless I'm looking forward to this, Dexter, and Walking Dead every Sunday.

[PopeyeJones]

Thanks for saying you don't want to agree with Popeye and then just repeating exactly what he already said..

Quoted for 90% of the board that has you on ignore.

I didn't "repeat exactly" what he said, though, unless by that you mean I agreed with what he said and then expounded on that and added some additional points.

Agreed.

Agreed on your list of scenes that betrayed the characters as well.

My biggest gripe is still Angela Darmody though, who is entirely tangential to the central conflict of the show, but still gets scenes. I was ecstatic when I thought she was leaving for Paris (for good), and was holding out hope that Jimmy was going to kill her after she came back and he had seen her note. It's kinda pathetic how much she bothers me. During this episode I just checked my email during her scenes.

[Icesickle]

I think there's too many characters on the show, and that's why a lot of the monumental events in some of the characters' story arcs seem forced or random because the show doesn't have the time or inclination to develop / foreshadow them enough; but I don't really mind Angela Darmody. I can see why you think she's insignificant, but she's also the wife of arguably, despite the way its billed, the main character in the show, so I don't really have a problem with it. I also don't mind it because I think the actress who plays her does a much better job than every other actress on the show, except Gretchen Mol. And I think she's cute, despite her unfortunate nose.

The scene where she goes into the couple's shop and gets slowly devastated was one of the best scenes of this past episode. She did a great job in that, imo.

[PopeyeJones]

^^^ Definitely agreed about too many characters.

[PopeyeJones]

I'm still having issues with Gretchen mol playing a grandmother. The titties are appreciated though.

She probably had him when she was thirteen. I'm sure Nucky tapped early as it was the norm back then.

On Oct. 11.

[Blockhead]

Emp with from beyond the grave.

[naturalborn103]

The biggest scene I have a problem with that they have not gone further with is the fed getting drunk and smashing Nuckys ex.

[Tommy Bunz]

I really think you guys are nitpicking the fuck out of this show and looking at the past with rose-colored glasses.

The Soprano's? Great show yes but it had a multitude of flaws, many of which mirror Boardwalk Empire or were actually worse. The "too many characters" argument, the storylines that go nowhere, etc. Not to mention that the Soprano's was mired by some seriously terrible acting which it overcame only because the subject matter was entertaining. AJ and Meadow Soprano, Michael Imperioli and his girlfriend...face it just about everyone other than James Gandolfini, Edie Falco and Lorraine Bracco were average or straight up shitty actors. You can't compare a show in its debut season against classic series that had a full run already. Was anyone really singing the praises of The Wire after the first (or even the 2nd) season?

As far as debut seasons go, I'd say Boardwalk Empire is stacking up rather nicely and a lot of the characters that haven't done a lot this season but have been sucking up a lot of time I'm sure they have big plans for them in future seasons (Jimmy's wife & Al Capone especially).

This show is doing a lot of things right. Classic scenes, probably better acting than any other HBO show outside of Deadwood, really excellent period staging and costuming....it's very entertaining, period and it's too early to be judging it against anything other than itself.

For one, plot twists or scenes just get thrown in at random without any foreshadowing or rationale (eg, the Ponzi scheme victim lashing out at everyone and this setting off Margaret leaving Nucky; Jimmy's girl getting powned by the photographer and his wife, even though there wasn't any reason given as to why the photographer's wife would pull such a fucked up stunt on her; Nucky and his brother having a blow out even though they reconciled after his brother got shot; etc.). The writing and dialog is frequently poor (Jimmy saying, "I should piss in it!" [the cackling guys drink], almost every interaction Van Alden has, etc.).

Just to counteract all of these cause I disagree:

Ponzi scheme: They showed how the girl was a golddigging whore in previous episodes. This also fits in with Margaret's own struggles wanting to be with Nucky even though she knew deep down he was not a good guy.

Photographer's wife: The scene with the wife and the photographer the day before they were supposed to leave showed her reconciling with him.

Nucky and his Sheriff bro: they've been foreshadowing this in like 4 different scenes this season. Nucky talking to Commodore, Nucky and his bro's replacement, the many scenes showing his brother's jealousy, etc.

Disagree about the dialogue too. The "i should piss in it" line could've been in any Soprano's episode and you wouldn't have thought twice about it. Most of the writing has been very good.

[Icesickle]

Classic scenes, probably better acting than any other HBO show outside of Deadwood

Even though they utilized a lot of character actors and people who were just playing alternate versions of themselves, the acting in The Wire was far better than on this show.

For that matter, Treme has better acting too. Khandi Alexander murders every actress on Boardwalk Empire and the ensemble (specifically, Wendell Pierce, Steve Zahn, John Goodman, Kim Dickens, and Clarke Peters) does a much better job. Unless BE's season finale is the best show of all time or something, I'd say Treme is a better show all around as well.



After the finale, I'll make a poll about it.

[PopeyeJones]

I think all of Tommy's points are valid. I don't necessarily agree with them (it just comes down to a matter of taste), but they're valid.

The one place we really disagree about is if the complaints are nitpicking or not, though. I can see how the complaints some of us have made could be seen as nitpicking, but they need to be put in context.

Basically, why are people interested in the show in the first place? (rhetorical question, answer to follow, whaddadick).

HBO (quality) is pouring money (quality) into a show with great actors (quality) that is supervised by Tim Van Patten (quality), Terrence Winter (quality) and Marty Scorsese (quality).

Basically, I think the show is reasonably held to a higher standard of quality. For me, Boardwalk Empire should be an EXCELLENT show, and so far, it's a very good show.

If we were trying to deconstruct snippets of dialog that didn't work on The Mentalist I think it would be nitpicking, but given the way the show was sold to audiences in the first place, I think people have a right to hold it to a higher standard.

FWIW, as a non-Sopranos watcher (meaning, I'm ignorant on that one), I think Treme is a good comparison point. HBO + David Simon + Big bucks on locations budget + Name actors in ensemble cast means that a "good" ends up being a failure in terms of expectations (without ever being a "bad" show, just not a great one). If you look at the context in which the show was received, it's not nitpickin to point out its flaws, imo.

Edit: and btw, Ice and I disagree in that I like BE more than Treme. Just realized we both made the comparison at probably around the same time.

[Tommy Bunz]

I think The Wire had a lot more fun characters and therefore it made the acting seem better than it was. I mean how many times did Domonic West forget that he was supposed to be an American and slip in a British accent? Was Michael K. Williams really any better as Omar than he is as Chalky? I'm not really dissing The Wire or its acting at all, It's tied with Twin Peaks as my favorite show of all time, but I think its at best on the same level acting-wise with Boardwalk Empire. The dude playing Jimmy has really started to come into his own, Buscemi is really starting to live the part, the tin man, Al Capone, Capone's boss with the crazy eye, Margaret, Michael Shannon....This cast easily is right there with anything The Wire put out in any individual season.

To be honest, Treme bored the fuck outta me and I stopped watching after maybe 5 episodes. I haven't had one person IRL ever talk to me about it so I haven't felt like I missed anything yet.

[PopeyeJones]

Was Michael K. Williams really any better as Omar than he is as Chalky?

Hard to tell b/c:

1. he's still entirely one-dimensional on BE (reasonably so, we'll see if that changes)

2. that one-dimension is entirely undifferentiated from Omar.

Basically, nah, not worse, but "Omar again" won't ever get as positive of a response as "Omar" (insert any name).

[Tommy Bunz]

Didn't see your response before I posted Popeye.
Fair enough, I see where you're coming from and I completely understand why it makes more sense to complain about problems in a high-profile period drama like this as opposed to genre-schlock like The Walking Dead.

But still you are reinforcing a bit why I refer to it as nitpicking. You were expecting excellence and instead admit you are getting "very good". A show like this with a shitload of characters spread out over four cities (AC, NY, Chicago & Philly), with a ton of time period-specific references to explain to the multitude of ignorant watchers, not to mention this isn't truly fiction like The Wire, Treme, or any of the other big HBO shows so they have some sort of true-to-life storyline and character arcs to follow. They aren't really playing by the same rules......They are clearly setting the show up for the long haul and I think they have done a very excellent job in doing so.

Basically all I'm saying is at this point, I agree it's "very good". Not immediately one of the best HBO shows ever made but we have to admit it is at least in a position to be in contention if they tie up some loose ends and continue moving in a forward direction.

[Tweak Da Leak]

Van Alden and Rothstein > Any actor on Treme

[ackbar]

Emp with from beyond the grave.

he also somehow thought nucky was jimmy's dad tho

[PopeyeJones]

@ Tommy,

Agreed.

But I complain about Walking Dead too, so "just curmudgeonly" might be option also.

[Sucka Ducka]

I don't really care to type out long winded critiques or opinions right now, but I can pretty much co-sign much of what Tommy is saying.

[Tommy Bunz]

[Req]

But I complain about Walking Dead too, so "just curmudgeonly" might be option also.

i download all my shit but are these two competing for season finale numbers this Sunday or are they at diff times?

[PopeyeJones]

But I complain about Walking Dead too, so "just curmudgeonly" might be option also.

i download all my shit but are these two competing for season finale numbers this Sunday or are they at diff times?

dunno, I download too, but checked out of curiosity:

Last sunday:

9PM

Dexter 2.5 mil
Boardwalk 3 mil
Sarah Palin's Alaska 3.5 mil

10PM

Walking Dead 5.6 mil


Dexter and Boardwalk being subscriber based means they're on a different scale, though.

[Truth.]

Boardwalk has been sittin around 3 million viewers

Walking Dead finale will prolly go up to 6 mill+ viewers

[Dat_Triflin_Ass_Dude]

I'm bout ready for shit to get gutter b/w nucky and rothstein. Not really feelin the black sox scandal he keeps gettin screen time for. Rothstein got murked over some gambling debt in real life, no? Wonder how all that's gonna get weaved into the story

[Thun]

http://www.thetroyblog.com/2010/12/03/v ... -ganjah-k/

^Not related to the ongoing discussion about the show's quality, but related to the thread nevertheless.