ESPN News: Steve Nash to be named MVP
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ESPN News: Steve Nash to be named MVP
I don't have a major problem with this, really. He had a great season (Though lesser than last year) and without their second/best player Amare. Lebron probably deserved it more, but I'm not surprised he didn't get it. You know how these stupid processes go, especially with the newer players.
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MVP isn't about the best player in the league or else you'd have the same guy winning every season. Jordan would have like 10. Sometimes the best player in the league happens to be the most valuble.
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After looking at a list of previous winners and seeing who's won multiple times it just feels that Nash doesn't belong, even though he deserved the award.
Last edited by Psychosis on Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PHOENIX -- Steve Nash will win his second straight NBA Most Valuable Player award, according to reports on several area newspapers.
Nash
Nash
The announcement may not come for two weeks, according to the Arizona Republic. But the paper, and others, report that the voting shows Nash edging LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Chauncey Billups and Kobe Bryant for the MVP.
This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.
The Suns are currently playing the Los Angeles Lakers in the first round of the Western Conference playoffs.
A year ago, Nash edged Shaquille O'Neal in what was the fourth-closest balloting in history.
espn.com
Nash
Nash
The announcement may not come for two weeks, according to the Arizona Republic. But the paper, and others, report that the voting shows Nash edging LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Chauncey Billups and Kobe Bryant for the MVP.
This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.
The Suns are currently playing the Los Angeles Lakers in the first round of the Western Conference playoffs.
A year ago, Nash edged Shaquille O'Neal in what was the fourth-closest balloting in history.
espn.com
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I honestly think these last two seasons Nash, has been a better player than Dirk. As good as Dirk is, as a Mavs fan, i sometimes wonder what we would be like with Nash leading instead of Dirk...
My pick would have been Chauncey Billups but I'm not mad at Nash.
My pick would have been Chauncey Billups but I'm not mad at Nash.
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Nash played with an entirely new team outside of Marion. They lost their All-Star big man, lost Kurt Thomas, played in the West against better competition, and still won 54 games along with their division. It's obvious Nash is a great system player, he's built for the run-and-gun. But it's not so easy to play a full-court game so effectively. They've put good pieces around him and he makes every one of those guys so much better than they are.Brougham33 wrote:What a joke......can anybody please justify by way of either criteria (best player/ most valuable to the team)....how Steve Nash deserves it over LEBRON or DIRK?
If you don't think that's evidence enough then I got two words for you: Boris Diaw.
I don't think people realize how much better the Cavs really should be and how unimpressive the rosters of teams like Dallas or Phoenix are. LeBron had Big Z, Donyell Marshall, Drew Gooden, and some of Larry Hughes. That's more talent on paper than almost any other team out there. Dirk had Jason Terry, Stackhouse, Howard. But Nash went to war with Marion, Raja Bell and James Jones?
I can't buy Kobe because they suck, or Billups because they're too stacked. I'm not sold on LeBron being able to lift his teammates around him to another level, I just see him on the other level by himself.
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shawn marion is one of my favorite players right now, but with amare down, if steve wasn't on the suns, they're a 30-35 win team max, as it is, they're still title contenders. i think there were 5 guys who could have legitamitely won it this year.
Last edited by jredd109 on Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marion's good and all but he's not the type of guy who creates his own shot. It's not like they can run a play for Shawn, he just goes out there hustling, tipping, spotting up in the corners and rebounding. He's not the type of guy you can isolate. Nash does a ton for him too.jredd109 wrote:shawn marion is one of my favorite players right now, but with amare down, if steve wasn't on the suns, they're a 30-35 win team max, as it is, there still title contenders. i think there were 5 guys who could have legitamitely won it this year.
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I mean, look at Nash's team. He plays a full year without the team's most talented player. It's other all star, Marion, while talented, is completely incapable of creating his own shot, and relies on assists to complete the majority of his field goals. Other suns stalwarts include a backup point guard playing Center (Diaw) and a 10th man on a good team playing Small Forward (Raja Bell) and with that + Nash, they win 54 games.
From a pure offensive perspective, no point guard runs an offense like Nash.
From a pure offensive perspective, no point guard runs an offense like Nash.
"I love california. the other day some bum was like "gimme a dollar, I SAID GIMME A DOLLA!!!!!" and I told him to sit down and shut the fuck up. and he did. cause real talk I will knock a bum the fuck out." --BeHemoth
that's what i'm saying. the guy is a deserving all-star but if it was just him without nash and staudemire, with the same lineup, phoenix misses the playoffs. a lot of the credit goes to the system they run in phoenix, you can basically plug any guy with an once of skill in there and he will thrive. look at tim thomas. they picked him up off his couch and he's putting up solid numbers. in fact if he continues to contribute like the way he did in game 1 i think they'll make the conference finals again. back to the point, nash is the catalyst for the suns, and as such deserves the award.stupidregister wrote:Marion's good and all but he's not the type of guy who creates his own shot. It's not like they can run a play for Shawn, he just goes out there hustling, tipping, spotting up in the corners and rebounding. He's not the type of guy you can isolate. Nash does a ton for him too.jredd109 wrote:shawn marion is one of my favorite players right now, but with amare down, if steve wasn't on the suns, they're a 30-35 win team max, as it is, there still title contenders. i think there were 5 guys who could have legitamitely won it this year.
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Boris Diaw can play 5 positions on the Suns, which runs an unusual system. It's not like he can play center effectively for every team in the league.
Last edited by Psychosis on Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Some other Nash facts I garnered from 82games.com a Basketball stathead site in in depth anaysis.
Not only was his FT% .913% a league best, but he also had the fourth highest Clutch FT Percentage in the league (.923%) Dirk was 13th.
Four of the top 20 most effective pass-scorer combos in the league feature a man named Steve Nash.
The two players in the league most dependent upon a key assist in order to score a bucket both play with Steve Nash (Kurt Thomas & Boris Diaw)
In the passers most reliant on one scorer measure (I.E. easy assist gravy train player) Nash, who led the league in assists, and plays with multiple players who are dependent on him to score, did not even register. Basically, he has no gravy train player (ala Stockton to Malone) to beef up his assists, he spreads the ball around evenly to a bevy of mediocre players, who become better when playing with him.
"Nash has also led from his point-guard position the three greatest offenses since the NBA began tracking turnovers (2003-04 Dallas, 2004-05 Phoenix and 2002-03 Dallas), as measured by differential between the team's Offensive Rating and league average. Here is how I have them, defining possessions as .96*(FGA + (.44*FTA) - OR + TO):
Team Year ORtg League Diff
--------------------------------------
Dallas 2003-04 114.1 104.2 9.9
Phoenix 2004-05 116.6 107.4 9.2
Dallas 2001-02 114.0 105.8 8.2
Denver 1981-82 116.3 108.5 7.8
Chicago 1996-97 115.8 108.0 7.8
Dallas 2002-03 112.7 104.9 7.8 "
"An 82games study last year showed Stoudemire, along with Marion, was one of the NBA players most dependent on a single teammate (Nash, natch) for an assist. How much credit does Nash deserve for Stoudemire going from promising youngster to MVP candidate? A lot, I would say."
"If we look at all these different players, some very clear patterns emerge. For the most part, players tend to shoot better when Nash is on the court. The more important and more subtle effect, however, is that players slashed their turnover rate. (No regular improved their turnover rate alongside Nash the last two seasons; Jacobsen's was unchanged.) As I touched on in the discussion of Stoudemire, the reason for this is that Nash delivers the ball to players in position to shoot and without them having to do virtually any work for their shot besides getting open, as opposed to shooting off of a dribble or two."
"If there is a common thread amongst Nash's recent teams, besides their ultra-efficient offenses, it is that they rarely if ever turn the ball over. The 2002-03 and 2003-04 Mavericks recorded the two lowest turnover rates since the league began tracking turnovers in 1973-74, and the 2001-02 incarnation ranks fourth. (The 2004-05 Suns are also in the top 25 of all time.)"
Not only was his FT% .913% a league best, but he also had the fourth highest Clutch FT Percentage in the league (.923%) Dirk was 13th.
Four of the top 20 most effective pass-scorer combos in the league feature a man named Steve Nash.
The two players in the league most dependent upon a key assist in order to score a bucket both play with Steve Nash (Kurt Thomas & Boris Diaw)
In the passers most reliant on one scorer measure (I.E. easy assist gravy train player) Nash, who led the league in assists, and plays with multiple players who are dependent on him to score, did not even register. Basically, he has no gravy train player (ala Stockton to Malone) to beef up his assists, he spreads the ball around evenly to a bevy of mediocre players, who become better when playing with him.
"Nash has also led from his point-guard position the three greatest offenses since the NBA began tracking turnovers (2003-04 Dallas, 2004-05 Phoenix and 2002-03 Dallas), as measured by differential between the team's Offensive Rating and league average. Here is how I have them, defining possessions as .96*(FGA + (.44*FTA) - OR + TO):
Team Year ORtg League Diff
--------------------------------------
Dallas 2003-04 114.1 104.2 9.9
Phoenix 2004-05 116.6 107.4 9.2
Dallas 2001-02 114.0 105.8 8.2
Denver 1981-82 116.3 108.5 7.8
Chicago 1996-97 115.8 108.0 7.8
Dallas 2002-03 112.7 104.9 7.8 "
"An 82games study last year showed Stoudemire, along with Marion, was one of the NBA players most dependent on a single teammate (Nash, natch) for an assist. How much credit does Nash deserve for Stoudemire going from promising youngster to MVP candidate? A lot, I would say."
"If we look at all these different players, some very clear patterns emerge. For the most part, players tend to shoot better when Nash is on the court. The more important and more subtle effect, however, is that players slashed their turnover rate. (No regular improved their turnover rate alongside Nash the last two seasons; Jacobsen's was unchanged.) As I touched on in the discussion of Stoudemire, the reason for this is that Nash delivers the ball to players in position to shoot and without them having to do virtually any work for their shot besides getting open, as opposed to shooting off of a dribble or two."
"If there is a common thread amongst Nash's recent teams, besides their ultra-efficient offenses, it is that they rarely if ever turn the ball over. The 2002-03 and 2003-04 Mavericks recorded the two lowest turnover rates since the league began tracking turnovers in 1973-74, and the 2001-02 incarnation ranks fourth. (The 2004-05 Suns are also in the top 25 of all time.)"
"I love california. the other day some bum was like "gimme a dollar, I SAID GIMME A DOLLA!!!!!" and I told him to sit down and shut the fuck up. and he did. cause real talk I will knock a bum the fuck out." --BeHemoth
I hope Nash is paying for all of Stoudamire's rehab and buys him a platinum watch, because if Stoudamire wasn't hurt I seriously doubt that Nash would have won the MVP again.
Still, it's not like its a travesty or anything. Nash is a great player who improves his teammates, but I would have given it to Kobe or Lebron.
Still, it's not like its a travesty or anything. Nash is a great player who improves his teammates, but I would have given it to Kobe or Lebron.
No seriously think about it. It is one of the first things that pops out of people's mouths when they make a case for Nash for MVP. A few people in this thread alone have used it as a reason. You know that some of the guys that have done better this year (Diaw and Barbossa particularly) wouldn't have had as much of chance to shine because they wouldn't have played as much.Psychosis wrote:superb logicjamrage wrote:I hope Nash is paying for all of Stoudamire's rehab and buys him a platinum watch, because if Stoudamire wasn't hurt I seriously doubt that Nash would have won the MVP again.
It would have been expected that the Suns would do well, instead of a surprise that they have.
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You've got a point. I just think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say he needs to buy him a gift as if the fact that he was injured was the main reason Nash got the award. He still had to make those players shine and some of them hadn't done shit or had been marginal players before this season.jamrage wrote:No seriously think about it. It is one of the first things that pops out of people's mouths when they make a case for Nash for MVP. A few people in this thread alone have used it as a reason. You know that some of the guys that have done better this year (Diaw and Barbossa particularly) wouldn't have had as much of chance to shine because they wouldn't have played as much.Psychosis wrote:superb logicjamrage wrote:I hope Nash is paying for all of Stoudamire's rehab and buys him a platinum watch, because if Stoudamire wasn't hurt I seriously doubt that Nash would have won the MVP again.
It would have been expected that the Suns would do well, instead of a surprise that they have.
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Yeah Nash is a great player, and elevated the games of those around him. I was just being a smartass about the watch and alla that. But who knows who wins it if Stoudamire is healthy all year long.Psychosis wrote:
You've got a point. I just think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say he needs to buy him a gift as if the fact that he was injured was the main reason Nash got the award. He still had to make those players shine and some of them hadn't done shit or had been marginal players before this season.